PvT killer build

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PvT killer build

Postby Tailz » Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:08 am

Hey my fellow Brotoss.

Lately I've been trying a new build against T that seems to work very effectively. It was inspired by Slayers_Alicia's build which he used to knock IMMvp down to Code A. Alicia used a 3gate sentry expand vs MVP, only he moved out to pressure with 5 sentries, not the usual 8-10, or even 12 in oGsMC's usual style.

This force must comprise of mostly zealots (as zealots + Guardian shield takes forever to kill). Your Stalker numbers really depend on what his unit composition will consist of: if it is pure marine, you can get away with 1 (or 2 if you're not as confident with your Force Field trapping because its easier to micro with Stalkers vs Marines than with Zealots). If he has some Marauders, you may want to push with 2-3, and still keep your primary force consisting of Zealots. The reason for that is that Marauders with concussive shells can prove very annoying, and having a ranged unit to counter his ranged unit will help a ton. If he is teching, (only a few units at the ramp, gets gas(ses) fast, etc) then you will want more Stalkers, because it could mean Hellions (roast your "Light" Sentries and Zealots), the 1-1-1 with tanks (which will be standing behind his other units, therefore you need a ranged unit to pick them off faster), or fast air (Medivacs or Banshees, in both cases you will want to have anti-air). The push ends when all your zealots are dead: retreat your Sentries and Stalkers to allow them to fight another day.

Now, where this build differs from Slayers_Alicia's version, is that I do this off of 1 gas geyser, instead of 2. The reason I chose to try this out was to have more mineral income, and therefore get a faster economic boost earlier on, at the cost of delaying my tech choice. In Alicia's version of the push, you use 2 gasses, warp in majority zealots, have a lot of gas stockpiled up and can react with the appropriate tech path to counter your opponent's next move. (Alicia's personal favourite was with DTs.) One thing I've found though, is that some Terrans will mule up and go for a quick timing push (if they went MM, they move with stim and possibly an upgrade; if they were teching, they will move out with a bunker+siege push, etc.) and if they time this right, they can kill you before your tech comes into play. Keep in mind, their MM ball timing attack will be stronger now due to the fact that you've burned most of your FF's with the initial push, and you've been spending your gas on tech, not more sentries.

I'll give you guys a simple illustration. With Alicia's version of the build, he will be going for fast DT, or colo, or whatever else. But colo without the range upgrade will get slaughtered by Terran's timing push with siege tanks, stimmed MM (esp without many forcefields left), or banshees. Building a DT shrine takes forever to build. Going VR will work if they've halted Marine production, but that's a far gamble, esp. if you hit him hard with Zealots.

Now with my version. After the attack, I retreat my Sentries and Stalkers and only then get all my gasses after retreating from the push (FOR UPGRADES!), throw up 3 more gateways, start the Nexus at my third. And THEN go for tech. (It's still smart to throw up a robo for an obs or to start colo tech asap. The difference between this opener and Alicia's is that you will have more Probes, a way faster third base, a bigger army to defend vs a timing push with, and much faster upgrades. And also, if you added in the robo like I recommended, you could do some pretty good damage with 1 or 2 warp prisms + 6 gates.

Now, the rough, unpolished build order:
(keep in mind that this build is not fully developed yet, as I'm still constantly tweaking it for improvement etc.)

9 Pylon
11 Assimilator <-- This is how I pull off 3gate sentry without only 1 gas
13 Gate
15/16 pylon
.. (continue as you would with 3gate FE, but stay on 1 gas)

I use 2-3x chronoboost on WarpGate, and the rest on probes.

I'm still trying to figure out which works better, making zealots with your first warp round because zealots have the fastest cooldown rate and warp in sentries on the way to your opponent, or make sentries with your first warp round to mount up as much energy as possible, and then warp in zealots at a proxy location. Way 1 allows for more units faster, whereas Way 2 would possibly allow you a couple more FF's. Chronoboost timings on warpgates still has to be tested.

Please feel free to comment and question. I'm mostly on EU or KR server, but my NA ID is Tailz - 602, and I will be glad to talk about the build, have a partner for testing this out, etc.

Tailz
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Re: PvT killer build

Postby james12600 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:14 pm

seems almost unstoppable, are there any replays of this?
made it to gold :D so much cheese xD
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Re: PvT killer build

Postby Whitewing » Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:57 pm

This is viable vs. a terran fast expand, but any sort of terran 1 base or safer/later expand will crush this.
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Re: PvT killer build

Postby Tailz » Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:52 pm

the build is still in development, but I could possibly post some of the practice replays I've had with my friend. and Whitewing, I've held off many 3racks MM all ins with this build: forcefield well and use your initial units to kill enough of his army, throw up your additional gates a bit earlier and you're good to go. after you hold the 3racks, you'd have to mess up really big in order to lose. Alicia never lost to a 1 base terran with his build, and this is the safer version of it :D
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Re: PvT killer build

Postby james12600 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:02 pm

in that case could you put up the safer version aswell :) ty
made it to gold :D so much cheese xD
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Re: PvT killer build

Postby Tailz » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:09 pm

the build I posted IS the safer version of SlayerS_Alicia's build :P
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Re: PvT killer build

Postby james12600 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:11 pm

oooh, sorry i cant read xD
what about the hardcore badass version?
made it to gold :D so much cheese xD
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Re: PvT killer build

Postby Tailz » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:16 pm

lol, reread my post. the main difference between alicia and me is that he uses 2 gas, I only use 1. so the hardcore badass one would be to use 2 gas, and counter with the appropriate tech right away, as opposed to me, who takes a fast third and gets triple forge for upgrades.
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Re: PvT killer build

Postby Tailz » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:17 pm

and I stay on gateway tech for a tad longer too. i.e. alicia will go 6-7 gate on 2 base, I will go 5-6 gate with mass upgrades and mass probes to get to 75 probes and 3base asap, and rely on sentries and my tech finishing JUST in time to hold his push.
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Re: PvT killer build

Postby james12600 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:18 pm

OOOOOOOH i love it, especially with newest patch for cheaper upgrades, i always do triple upgrades now :)
and i will re-read multiple times, i have the worst memory EVER
made it to gold :D so much cheese xD
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Re: PvT killer build

Postby Tailz » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:20 pm

haha. if you need, just write it on a post-it note and stick it to your screen. I did that when I first started playing sc2, when I had to learn how to play via following pure build orders. don't stay on that forever though, or else your chances of getting past gold league are very slim.
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Re: PvT killer build

Postby james12600 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:22 pm

ill print it and tape it to my ceiling above my bed :) and i do try not to use build orders anyway for multiple reasons (besides 4gate ofc)
made it to gold :D so much cheese xD
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Re: PvT killer build

Postby Tailz » Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:30 am

This is a high level build though.. so if you're not confident in your mechanics, I'd advise going standard 3gate FE just to be safe.
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Re: PvT killer build

Postby james12600 » Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:48 pm

ive watched enough day[9] to be pretty good with my mechanics, my problem is micro, scouting and lack of counter knowledge
made it to gold :D so much cheese xD
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Re: PvT killer build

Postby Whitewing » Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:22 am

Micro and scouting are both part of mechanics.
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Re: PvT killer build

Postby Tailz » Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:05 am

Whitewing, imho, scouting is part of mechanics, but I guess micro both could and couldn't be called mechanics. It can be a more advanced aspect of mechanics, or just under another umbrella period. i.e. you'd rather get your macro down before working on micro. I learned to micro first, and it took forever to break out of the habit of choosing micro over macro, before I started to learn how to multitask haha
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Re: PvT killer build

Postby james12600 » Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:45 pm

ok, let me rephrase that, my macro is ok but the rest is useless
made it to gold :D so much cheese xD
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